This Is Perimenopause
Menopause isn’t the end, it’s just the beginning. Hosts Michelle and Mikelle are on a mission to help others be better informed than they were when they started their perimenopause journeys. The podcast is a blend of health, education, mindset, and personal growth. Michelle and Mikelle along with their guests are sharing real-life stories and expert advice to help you navigate perimenopause, menopause and beyond.
This Is Perimenopause
Sober Curious in Perimenopause: How Quitting Alcohol Can Transform Your Life with Michelle Hillier
Have you ever wondered what life might look like without alcohol? Whether because of the sleep disruptions or just a niggling feeling that you might feel better without it, this is the episode for you. Join us as Michelle Hillier shares her personal journey of sobriety, highlighting the profound impacts that reducing alcohol can have on clarity and health.
In this episode you learn:
- What it means to be sober curious, why people consider this lifestyle, and the benefits it offers.
- How Michelle has embraced a sober lifestyle, including the challenges and triumphs she encountered.
- How reducing or eliminating alcohol can significantly improve symptoms associated with perimenopause.
- Michelle’s insights on the social pressures of drinking and strategies for handling social situations while maintaining sobriety.
- How to find the support and resources to help you explore or maintain a sober lifestyle.
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Michelle Hillier Bio
For over two decades, Michelle Hillier has captivated audiences as an educator, TEDx speaker, published author, and personal coach. Now a Lifestyle Design + Recovery Coach and Founder of Breath + Fire, Michelle is revolutionizing the way individuals approach wellness and recovery, offering transformative guidance that empowers personal growth and healing.
A certified yoga and meditation teacher, dance/movement specialist, and recovery coach, Michelle brings a unique blend of professional expertise and personal experience to her teachings. She is a respected faculty member at Ontario Tech University and Sheridan College, where she teaches courses on wellness and integrated arts and movement. Through her platform, Breath & Fire, Michelle integrates all her passions and skills to inspire and educate individuals, groups, and organizations.
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There's no doubt that my life is better without alcohol, no doubt, and I want to live a long life. I want to be a mom for a long time and as I approach menopause I know there's going to be other physical changes coming up. I want to be better equipped, with a really body full of vitality that can handle these changes, and alcohol is not one of them. Alcohol is not one of them, and the one thing I would tell somebody that's considering sober curiosity or just even that glimmer of what would life be like without alcohol, that nothing changes if nothing changes.
Mikelle Ethier:Welcome to. This is Perimenopause, the podcast where we delve into the transformative journey of perimenopause and beyond. I'm one of your hosts.
Michelle Stainton:Michele, and I'm your other host, Michelle and we know firsthand how confusing, overwhelming and downright lonely this phase of life can be.
Mikelle Ethier:Join us as we share real-life stories and expert advice to help you navigate this journey and advocate for your best health.
Michelle Stainton:We used to think menopause signaled an end, but really it's just the beginning.
Mikelle Ethier:We know you've been told to cut back on alcohol during perimenopause to help curb symptoms. We also know that this can be hard and overwhelming. So this week we welcome back Michelle Hillier to have a sober, curious conversation Packed with relatable advice and ideas for anyone thinking about easing up on alcohol. Learn how to get the tools and confidence you need to make a change that feels right for you. Welcome back, michelle, hi Hi.
Michelle Hillier:So good to see you, so good to see everybody again. How are you doing, how have you been Overall? You know, overall good, overall smooth. I always say no, good, okay or great when I'm working with my clients, like, how are you? And they always say good, it comes out so quick, right, and I think we do that as humans. So I always say no, good, okay or great. So what am I today? I am feeling curious and open-minded. I love that. I love that too. Yeah, they make people dig a little deeper for what they're feeling because those ones come out too quick.
Michelle Stainton:And I'm feeling energized and really excited Mikkel.
Mikelle Ethier:I'm feeling, I'm actually feeling content which it's interesting that you're asking, fantastic that we're talking about this, because I don't know that I would have taken the time to recognize that if you hadn't just said what you said you know what throw fine in there too oh, especially with the teenagers. Fine, fine, I also asked my kids so what's one good thing that happened today and what's one bad thing that happened today and what's one?
Michelle Hillier:bad thing that happened today. I always say what's one thing that made you laugh? What happened, that was really funny. Always lends to a story.
Mikelle Ethier:I like that. That's a good one too.
Michelle Stainton:Parenting tips 101. Now that we're all better than good, okay and great. Michelle, how long have you been sober?
Michelle Hillier:So I took my last drink on November sorry, on July 21st 2021.
Michelle Stainton:Amazing, and can you tell us a little bit about your journey to sobriety?
Michelle Hillier:For sure, and I was thinking about this and I think what I want to share is how normal I thought my drinking was for decades and I think that's you know. It never really was like. I never thought I had to stop drinking, I never thought to question my relationship with alcohol, I never thought in a million years I would be a sober woman. Because we identify like there's a lot of stigma when it comes to language and words around alcohol and drug use and people actually making this beautiful decision to quit. They become then an alcoholic after they quit or they become sober, which is connected. I looked it up in the dictionary and the first definition is, you know, in absence of alcohol, and then it goes to the second definition, which is more about straight minded and level headed and serious. But the sober is first of all connected with that alcohol free lifestyle which, believe me, has been the best decision of my life. This idea to become sober was not ever part of my path until I was faced with it during the pandemic, when I was making the decision to use alcohol as a tool for numbing and escaping the shutdown of the world. It was I mean, everyone had their own vices and their own things that they did, I'm sure. During during the pandemic, however, I leaned into my favorite one, which was drinking, which had a really positive connection to my whole life like teens, 20s, 30s kind of shifted a bit. It changed a bit during when I became a mother and my identity really was shifted and that became a part of it. But when I connect the dots, I drank more when I was pulled out of my authentic self and when I was pulled out of my, when my identity was shifted I mean, this is that's my work now is getting curious about why I drank, and I think that's a big question that I want to talk about today is why people drink. It's easy to say I want to become sober, I want to quit drinking, it's going to be better for my health, better for my lifestyle, better for my parenting, better for my job, all these things. But why were you drinking? Why pour that glass of wine? What was the need to take the edge off? What's the edge you're taking off? These are the really bigger questions that I'd love to see women investigate at this age and stage of our lives, because that'll start making connecting dots even clearer.
Michelle Hillier:So during the pandemic, I was definitely. It was recognized that I was. I was drinking too much, I was aware of it. Like I was, like I am turning to this way too often out of boredom, out of isolation, out of unhappiness, and I had to surrender to this idea of giving up alcohol. So I'm not saying sobriety yet, because giving up alcohol was big Okay, I'm going to try to give this up which led to a 30 day treatment center which I never in a million years thought I'd be in a rehab of all of all places.
Michelle Hillier:But it was the best 30 days of my life for me to investigate myself, alone, away from my family, away from my alcohol and anything that was, you know, alluring to me to escape to. And it gave me a chance to be educated on alcohol and addiction and realizing the truth that I did have an alcohol use disorder problem for a long time. I did have what I was diagnosed as substance use disorder in an extreme case. Now they ask you these 10 questions when you answer, when you're there figuring this out for you, and I thought, geez, like most of my friends, would answer eight out of 10 of these questions yes as well, because of the normalization of drinking Like have you ever had more than two drinks in one sitting? Have you ever gone three days drinking in a row? Like they're very simple questions, but it was also alarming that this identifies someone as a substance use disorder.
Michelle Hillier:So while I was there, though, again learning all this education of alcohol, not being around it, being, quote sober, but after getting home and not working a program and not really doing the work that it takes to figure out why I was drinking, I relapsed after seven months. Wow. Then the real sobriety. My real sobriety date is that July 21st 2021, but that relapse was a gift from a little knock on, the little whisper from the universe saying remember, because I thought I could drink normal again. I thought I wasn't diving into the why I'm like.
Michelle Hillier:I thought I could do it again, which led to a month of just going back to the same patterns, escaping my feelings, numbing things out, changing the way I feel, and it wasn't until I realized more about myself and did this super deep inner work and really grew spiritually that I was able to realize that I know why I'm drinking now and I don't want to anymore. I want to focus on me, and my inner work was too important. So that was the last drink, so that was sort of the journey to sobriety. I attempted it, which is very common. If you look at the data that's out there of Canadian treatment centers, 94% of people relapse in the first year 94. What's the care after the treatment center? What's the program there? That is actually the most important and that's the work that we'll chat about a bit later with my 90 day coaching program is the aftercare after rehab.
Mikelle Ethier:Michelle, I also stopped drinking during the pandemic. I think maybe we talked about this in our first podcast together and I stopped, not because I needed to, but I recognized that alcohol. At that time I was very perimenopausal and didn't quite realize what was going on. But I was quickly realizing that if I was having even a glass of wine, I was choosing not to sleep that night and homeschooling and the stress of the pandemic in general I recognized that alcohol, while it maybe felt good in the moment, was actually making all of that worse. So at the time I didn't know the term sober curious, but you've introduced us to that. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about what sober curious is.
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, it came into my sort of path a couple of years ago while I was in recovery and while I was sober and I thought, was I sober, curious, 100%. I was Like, even 15 years ago I remember being at a retreat and doing a big meditative visualization exercise called the perfect day. The minute you wake up, what do you see? What do you smell? Where are you? And then you actually get yourself out of bed, you make your way to a mirror. What do you see?
Michelle Hillier:And I vividly remember the word vitality hitting me, that I look like in a perfect day, I look full of vitality. My skin, my physique, and what came in my head was and I'm not drinking. And then the other little voice said of course that can't happen. Like what do you mean? That you're not, you're not going to stop drinking? That was my first like whisper of sober curiosity. That is, a sober, curious mindset where you're thinking about what the Bennett, hopefully the benefits.
Michelle Hillier:How would my life be enhanced if I didn't drink alcohol? And I guarantee you women can name 10 reasons why, and especially approaching perimenopause and this age, they probably would say things like sleep would get better, I'd be less agitated, my skin would look better. I would probably lose a bit of weight and wouldn't eat that falafel or that piece of pizza at two in the morning when I'm drinking. You know all right, and you know I would be. I would just have a. I wouldn't have fights with my partner. That's when we always argue when I'm drinking, like there are so many benefits. So that's that curiosity.
Michelle Hillier:People might not do anything about it right away, or even in months, years, but they're curious what life would be like and want to do an investigation internally what life would be like without alcohol. To do an investigation internally what life would be like without alcohol. That's the. That's how I would like to define sober curiosity and, more so, zoning in on like what's my relationship with alcohol? I love that when that was framed to me. What like? Yeah, if you can ask women what is your relationship with alcohol and you know what I I am. I'm also want to be here really clearly saying that there's nothing like I'm not on here to say everyone needs to get sober at all, because some people's relationship with alcohol is fine, but be honest and investigate it.
Michelle Stainton:Yeah, I still have a drink, but it's no longer part of my routine and you do know that when you decide to have that drink, Mikkel, it's a conscious decision that you're making and you know that it's going to impact your sleep.
Mikelle Ethier:Yes, it's going to bring about my anxiety. I'm going to have the blues the next day.
Michelle Stainton:That sucks. That's the absolute one of the worst. I can't stand that symptom. You have such a great night and then you wake up Monday morning and I'm anxious and sad.
Michelle Hillier:It's ridiculous yeah.
Michelle Stainton:And that's the anxiety that's referred to.
Michelle Hillier:Sometimes it's the overstimulation of all the chemicals that come up when we're drinking, like the serotonin, the dopamine, oxytocin it's all the feel-good stuff, but then the depressive side. After oxytocin it's all the feel good stuff, but then the depressive side after and when you are having that first drink and that first bit feels good. The first 20 minutes is what we chase the rest of the night and that's why people are wanting more and more drinks. So in the first surge of serotonin that comes into the brain we're just chasing that all night. But alcohol is a depressant overall.
Michelle Stainton:Oh, that's really interesting. Oh, I never really considered that serotonin concept, but you're right. And then suddenly there's like a switch flips and you're no longer chasing anything. You're like honey badgers out and, oh my gosh, it's a mess.
Michelle Hillier:We're chasing that initial feeling that you get when the alcohol hits your system. That's all your body's chasing, then is that same feeling?
Mikelle Ethier:Wow.
Michelle Hillier:Yeah.
Mikelle Ethier:Well, and that's most people right. At the end of the day, I need to unwind with a glass of you know, insert favorite beverage here and man, that's so good, but it's only so good for, as you say, about 20 minutes.
Michelle Hillier:I like to question you know, if you're taking the edge off of what's the edge, and why not sit in the edge? Why not get curious about the edge, but guess what that's?
Michelle Stainton:hard, it's really hard.
Michelle Hillier:It takes work and it sucks. You're like, yeah, this edge is because my coworker is driving me bananas today, even more so than ever. Maybe the sitting in it it might be. Yeah, but I need to look at the way I treat her too. Like we it's our taking our part in, in in things. Or maybe I'm not super happy in this job and I've thought about this for a while now. Career change pour a drink Right.
Michelle Stainton:And because, because those thoughts sitting in that doesn't encourage you to relax and unwind, which is, you know what we're looking for, what we're chasing at the end of the day as well. Wow, it's a lot of work.
Michelle Hillier:It is the hardest thing I've done in my life and I've done a lot of hard things but the best thing I like. Michaela, you brought up recovery, that's sobriety recovery. What's the difference? I think that's a really, because we hear the word recovery thrown around and it's hard. When I identify as, oh, I'm in recovery, I get peculiar looks because people don't know what that means. I think the general public associated with that. I'm in recovery from something physical. But recovery in this, in this mental health world, can be recovery from anything. Recovery is like a very broad thing trauma, food technology, alcohol, drugs all the things can fall into recovery. So I identify as a woman in recovery more than like a sober woman.
Michelle Stainton:So, michelle, I have a question for you about how to handle social pressures around drinking, because here's what just happened. My husband and I decided we weren't drinking this week and then last night, when he got home from work, all the neighbors well, a few of the neighbors were out on the street having some drinks, and we were encouraged to come out. I mixed a fake drink soda, lime, lots of ice, I made it look like a gin and tonic, and that was great. However, the get together then moved into someone's house and, before I knew it, there were two glasses of wine that had been poured for me, and I woke up feeling disgusting this morning, like my stomach's been off. I've been in the bathroom all day Like I just feel disgusting and I broke my promise to myself. How do you deal with that?
Michelle Hillier:Wow, that's a big that's. This has been. Probably the biggest change in my life has been the social piece, and because of the social pressure. There's no doubt alcohol and those big events all go together. Like no matter where you go a baby shower, a gathering on the yard of the neighbors, a baseball tournament, a wedding, like there it's just alcohol is flowing. And it's hard to if you're, if women listening, if you are a social person and people identify you as that, and all of a sudden you show up and you're not drinking. It's a big why? What's wrong? It's almost like you don't want to put ketchup on your burger. Why? Why not? It's the same like because I don't. I'm not anymore, but it's a hard one to for people to understand. But also understand what you were saying about getting caught up in the social piece and wanting to fit in.
Michelle Stainton:Well, and also Michelle, just to interject quickly. I announced to people I'm not drinking this week, and then they actually got uncomfortable with me, so that's why I brought the fake drink out. And then they were relieved when I had a glass of wine. It was like, oh okay, you could see that they were physically more comfortable now that they could see I was drinking. Is that weird?
Michelle Hillier:No, it's absolutely normal. Because where I go to in my mind on that one is that they're also perhaps questioning their relationship with alcohol a little bit and then it makes them justify their behavior. When other people are with them there's camaraderie with like, oh good, someone's going to drink with me, like me. And then also we attach alcohol with fun. We attach alcohol with more being more social, with making more connections, and the way I socialize has changed in sobriety. But it also was time to change. That's something I really realized too. Like I'm not 30 anymore, I'm not 18. I'm not saying that someone of this ripe old age of 50 coming up can't have fun. It doesn't need to be the way it was.
Michelle Hillier:I think a lot of people may be hanging on to some old social behaviors that they aren't afraid to let go of from their youth and grow into their maturity and their adulthood. And what can be fun and what not could be fun. I also had, when I was sober, curious. My idea of not drinking sounded very boring and I didn't know what I would do. I couldn't connect those dots, what my life would look like without alcohol, because alcohol kind of was everywhere, it was part of the scene. So what that showed me now is that I can do things without drinking and when I'm there not drinking, I'm more aware, I'm having more meaningful conversations. And guess what, I don't stay as long and I don't go. I don't go to a lot of things. I make choices that are really important. So I think, like getting back to what I was saying about the why of drinking, if your why is to always be out in the world, socializing and escaping, maybe there's a little bit of fear about being alone and being with yourself and seeing what that's like, because getting out and socializing and drinking can really do a good job at masking that. I do go to events where there is alcohol. Of course I want to see my friends, I want to partake in events. I don't I don't miss them, but I'm just not there as long. Like I said, or I just I really make wise choices for myself about my time with people and the social pressure piece.
Michelle Hillier:I think like well, I have a new one now, when people don't know a lot about my drinking, when I'm stopped and I've stopped, I'm like, oh no, I'm, I've gone pro and I retired early. That's amazing. I try to make a little light of it. It works for me. I like I've gone pro and I retired early, or I'll say you know what I've done enough drinking for a lifetime. It was time to stop. It also gives you a chance to reevaluate friendships and connections in sobriety and making changes. It is about change. That is the biggest piece that I can tell you. That's changed. It's change. Everything about my life has changed pretty much in sobriety, and I wasn't ready for it. Change is hard but it also can be exciting and I see on the other side of it now, three years later, almost the more of the positive repercussions of not drinking way outweigh the ones that, uh, I would be deemed as negative and change is hard.
Mikelle Ethier:So, michelle, you um, you do some coaching and we'll we'll talk about that in a minute. My understanding is you coach people who are actually in recovery. Do you also coach people who are sober curious and it's not about necessarily a problematic relationship with alcohol, but the fact that they're sober curious, or they're recognizing maybe their perimenopausal and they're not sleeping anymore, or the anxiety is through the roof because of the hormonal changes and the alcohol is just not working. How do you coach someone let's talk about the sober curious who you know coach them through the challenges and some of the things that can happen that can make it hard to make those changes.
Michelle Hillier:Yeah for sure. So the coaching program that I did, I created and is now out in the world, is for anybody, anybody wanting to make a change in their life, if they're feeling stuck and want to make a change, and that can be like some. Some of my clients are in recovery. So they are, you know, cannot drink your drug anymore and I'm helping them with accountability and daily and, you know, weekly calls. But my other clients are just women that want to get in touch with who they are, make a change, whether it be a physical, mental, social, emotional, environmental change of some sort.
Michelle Hillier:We identify that in our first session together and alcohol does come up in a lot of the physical evaluation piece of their wellness domain. Where they're they say, yeah, you know what I would like to look at my relationship with alcohol. I probably drink. I don't want to do the daily drinking anymore, it's just something I would like to cut down on. So after that, like first kind of assessment intake, we'll look at a plan. I'll create a plan for them that will continue together over the 12 weeks.
Michelle Hillier:So for someone sober, curious, I would. I would approach them the same way I would if they were, if they were kind of in recovery in a way, where we're looking at things they can do instead of drinking, or when you want to have the drink, make a journal note of what, how you're feeling, like it's a lot of like tapping into their own feelings, journaling, meditation, nature and then connecting with me as well, and I'm available daily for my clients in that 90 days. So if there is ever that trigger or that craving to want to pour a glass of wine and they know that they're really trying not to call me and we talk through it and it's usually like I always say thoughts are temporary. They, like they, last about 10 minutes. Well, I don't say that, I say thoughts are temporary.
Michelle Stainton:I made that up.
Michelle Hillier:Thoughts are temporary and there is about a 10 minute, eight to 10 minute window that when we want something, if we do something else to distract or, you know, change the course of our thoughts, we won't even think about the thing again. Change the course of our thoughts, we won't even think about the thing again. So it's just all about strategies for change. So, yes, I do work with women that are in recovery and not in recovery, just wanting to make a change in their life.
Michelle Stainton:What is your program? Called Michelle, Awaken your Flame. Awaken your Flame. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
Michelle Hillier:I think it's also having someone that's been through it that if there is a social event or if there is something coming up, they know where they're going to go to and there's alcohol going to be there. It's good to have a plan. So I will talk through them what I would call like a safety plan or that sounds so informal, but it really is good to talk through things like you're going to your cousin's baptism, okay, after there's going to be a get together with wine. How are you going to be? How long are you going to stay? Are you going to drive yourself? You probably should, so that you can get out if you want to.
Michelle Hillier:What are you going to drink instead? What are you going to tell people if they ask you why you're not drinking wine Like it's? It's getting clients prepared for events. When you're prepared, you feel a lot more confident in your decisions and, like Michelle, you and I could have had a whole safety plan about the neighborhood get together. I would have loved that and then you would have known things to say. Like I'm giving clients tools so that when they're presented with people or places or things that they're uncomfortable around drinking, they feel prepared.
Michelle Stainton:So what would you have told me? What kind of tools could I have come to my street party with last night?
Michelle Hillier:I think you did the right thing by pouring the drink. I get curious about why we have to show people that we're quote drinking. Like you said, it looked like a drink but that is like look at me, I fit in. It's because we're looking for connection, right? So the and the connection is the alcohol and the, the. I fit in because I have a drink with you all where, michelle, you would have beautifully fit in without, without alcohol. You know that these are the things that went through my mind that I would be judged or looked at differently if I held that can of bubbly and not a can of beer. And really nobody cares. After 10 seconds of maybe a question and a little curiosity, why Michelle doesn't have a, a, you't have a Coors Light in her hand, they really don't care, right? So we think they care more than when they do.
Michelle Stainton:And what about like the near beers and like the oh yeah, Is that?
Michelle Hillier:an option? Yeah, I drink those. So there is, and this is something to bring up too. You know this is a really interesting one. To go down that mocktail near beer route.
Michelle Hillier:If you are an alcoholic or have trouble with drinking, know that you cannot drink, should not drink it. I would recommend to stay away from anything like that for at least a year of your sobriety, because it just it's. There's too many mental connections to the flavor the. You know and I'm saying this from experience, ladies in early recovery, I bought those partake, fake near beers and I cracked four in a row. Okay, this, this behavior is the same. Right, flavors the same. I just not getting the results. So my, uh, my coach and I at the time were like, let's, let's ditch the near beer. I'm like, and I didn't touch it, I let it go, no problem. Now it's like a treat.
Michelle Hillier:If I'm at a restaurant and they have a non-alcoholic beer on the menu, I really enjoy it because I like the flavor of it. If that's something for a neighborhood party or anywhere, if there's that option, 100% yeah, I take the Zero Coronas to baseball. Those are my favorite. They taste exactly like so good and I like the taste of beer. I'm not doing it because I'm replacing it or a social pressure to fit in. I like the taste of beer.
Mikelle Ethier:The Peronis are really good too. Oh, I haven't tried those. Peroni makes an amazing non-alcoholic beer.
Michelle Stainton:We should just do In the show notes, amy, we'll do a list of amazing non-alcoholic beer. Oh, we should just do it in the show notes, amy, we'll do a list of amazing non-alcoholic options.
Michelle Hillier:And in Toronto at least, like restaurants, the mocktail menu is just as robust as the cocktail menu.
Michelle Stainton:Same with, yeah, I think same with Waterloo.
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, yeah, it's nice to see and that's a great for the sober, curious listener. That is a great option to try to. If you like the taste of mocktails and cocktails and beers, there's lots of options out there for you. The thing is, if you're thinking and getting curious about your drinking, that's a number one telltale sign that you maybe have a problem. And that was me for a long time, I mean. I even remember in my 30s so going back 20 years now that I would think why do I drink more than everybody else? Why do I want the after party to always keep going? I had those thoughts.
Mikelle Ethier:Michelle, curious how long after you stopped drinking did you feel the benefits of that? Or how long did it take for you to say, wow, the way I feel is so much better not drinking than the way I feel when I'm drinking oh great question.
Michelle Hillier:I would say the first month was my body sort of just getting like recalibrated with it. I mean, maybe it's a form of detox, because even if you're just a daily one glass of wine, your body still is. It needs to be detoxed. It stays in your body a long time I think I read something like six months before the alcohol is fully out of your complete system, like like if you were, if you were a heavy drinker, but I would say Mikal, around, um, I'd say around the three month mark, around 90 days of of no alcohol.
Michelle Hillier:I started seeing the inflammation that I think I was very inflammatory in all ways. I look back at old photos from 10, 15 years ago where I was on stage doing a speech or something or a presentation. I thought I looked great and I'm carrying so much inflammation it's not just puffiness, I look inflamed, my body just is carrying a lot of that weight, and so I felt like that all sort of went away within 90 days. I was sleeping a lot better. I finally realized what like restorative sleep was like I did. I think I was waking up every hour or something right and realizing, just thinking I'm a bad sleeper, and that was just what I identified and labeled myself as I'm not a great sleeper. Well, remove alcohol and do proper nightly meditation and bath and tea and my whole nighttime routine, getting myself actually ready for sleep has changed my life. I still don't sleep long, but I sleep deep. God, the hangovers like I will never want one ever again in my life. So even just that whole mental side of things where I thought how did I do that to myself? That was a massive health benefit, obviously. And then just my skin my hair felt thicker after about six months, like I would put my hair at a point and go, oh, that thickness is back. The clarity, like I'm going more into mental now. I was like, wow, I feel sharp In the work I did. For decades too, it had to be very on and teaching and on stages and no one would know.
Michelle Hillier:But now I know I have clarity, I have vitality, I feel and I and people that do know me, that you know have been with me in this journey or if they haven't seen me in a while and they'll see me go they're like what's going on? I'm like sober. I say it like with a woman said to me at the gym, at the studio, I go to a little boutique Pilates studio. She hadn't seen me in about five years and she's like you've always been in really good shape. I remember you teaching like fitness and bootcamps and that years ago in our neighborhood. But like you must be doing something else now. And I said, siobhan, I'm sober. And then I added, and I'm divorced, we're going to need another podcast for that one.
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, it really comes back to what I mentioned when I identified, when I was drinking heavily was the lack of integrity or authenticity, like something pulling myself out of my real self. Pulling myself out of my real self. I'm back in line now. So the desire to drink is off the table, gone. I don't want to do that to myself. I don't want to do that to my physical health.
Mikelle Ethier:And the benefits have shown why. So, for our listeners who've just had a summer of indulging and having a great time and you know, doing the things you do in the summer, other than calling you and booking you for 90 days, what are the big things you want them to take away? Maybe it's how to get started or maybe it's you know. What do you really need to think about?
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, great question. So the the number one, and these aren't like actual, tangible I mean, I'll get to that in a second but like number one, realizing that, like getting honest with yourself, not just oh, I should quit drinking, but doing like an honest investigation of yourself, like what would life be like without alcohol? What are some things alcohol has not served me well over the last summer or years, or whatever. So getting in touch with it, like getting honest with it and maybe finding a buddy to do it with you, like the accountability piece around um, you can't do this alone. If you have someone to do it with you, it is so much more benefit, like so much more successful.
Michelle Hillier:And I guess just my, my advice would be one like one day at a time, Like it is not a thing. You're like I'm done drinking now forever, or this month or this way. How about just one day? I'm not drinking today, and then those days end up adding up to weeks and months and before you know it it's been six months. So that is, that's straight out of the you know big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. But it's a beautiful saying one day to time. And my answer when people say are you never drinking again. I just say not for today.
Mikelle Ethier:And it applies to everything in life, right, yeah, yeah.
Michelle Stainton:I love that. Michelle, is your recovering coaching? Is it like a? I'm just curious, is it like an actual certification or like what? Can you tell us a bit about that?
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, so I'm a certified recovery coach with Recovery Coach University out of the US Very cool. Yeah. So my coaching involves the weekly call one-on-one with the client, but also I have a group call, a group session on Wednesday nights it's Wednesdays now it could change where we do an embodiment practice together and then talk about a topic. So a breath work, meditation, gentle movement. I call it Awaken your Flame, so that's part of their program as well as access to that group session. And so the coaching involves yoga, breath work, meditation, and I'm certified in all those as well.
Mikelle Ethier:And can anyone anywhere join?
Michelle Hillier:Anyone anywhere. It is absolutely virtual. So we do our calls over Zoom and it starts with a 90 day and then can continue after that like a six month, 12 month, to keep going, because 90 days is that big habitual change breaker time and I'm there with you. I always say, like I'm on your team, like we're doing this together, and that's. It's really hard to find a coaching program with a daily accountability and that comes in the form of a, like you know, a text or a WhatsApp message, but I'm, I'm in there, I'm in your face every day, not that aggressive. I am there, I'm available as a touch point every day for those 90 days, cause you really do need someone. That's that's got your back if you're making a big change, because it's a lot of uncertainty and it's scary, but I'm there to coach them through it.
Mikelle Ethier:I think for a lot of people, thinking about or considering stopping alcohol can be really scary. What would you say to people about that?
Michelle Hillier:Yeah, wonderful question. It can bring up a lot of judgment from others or for yourself. If you're deciding to to quit something cause you're identifying that you have a problem and no one wants to think. No one wants to be thinking they have a problem with something that they can't control. Right, they like they. Why can't I just quit this on my own? And if you especially if you're, if you've tried to quit unsuccessfully and you need extra help, it's scary to think about god, do I really have a problem with this? And I guess my, my answer for that would be if you can find a confidant to get you to, to you can share it with that.
Michelle Hillier:You want to reach out and get help, but also realizing that you are not alone in this at all and, like there are people struggling with any sort of substance or alcohol in particular, that you're.
Michelle Hillier:You definitely are not alone in your thoughts, but knowing that you're making a decision that's going to better your life. There's no doubt that my life is better without alcohol, no doubt, and I want to live a long life. I want to be a mom for a long time and as I approach menopause, I know there's going to be other physical changes coming up. I want to be better equipped, with a really body full of vitality that can handle these changes, and alcohol is not one of them. So just knowing that you're making a really positive change for yourself and for your future and the ones that love you and that you love, that is motivation enough to do that. And the one thing I would tell somebody that's considering sober curiosity or just even that glimmer of what would life be like without alcohol, that nothing changes. If nothing changes, it's about change. So if you're doing the same old thing day after day and wanting expecting results to happen, it's not going to happen.
Mikelle Ethier:It's actually the definition of insanity, isn't it? Yeah, exactly, and for our listeners out there, if you're curious and you're feeling scared or you're not sure you're intimidated, just send Michelle an email.
Michelle Hillier:She's awesome, and you know. What else I want to mention, too, is all the work I do with clients is completely anonymous and private. There's no need for loved ones to be involved If you don't want them to be. This can be your personal journey and we can just do it together privately.
Michelle Stainton:I have one last question, michelle. What if we have someone in our life? So it's not? Obviously we've figured out that I need to do some work, but what if we have someone else in our life that we feel that they may need some help as well? How do we? What's the? Is there a way to approach? Is there a good questions to ask Like how do we, how do we start the conversation with our loved ones?
Michelle Hillier:My advice is you always give them the number and the option to call. Never would I just call somebody. It has to be them, it has to be the willingness to come from them. But I think what really connects Michelle is sharing that. I've gone through it.
Michelle Hillier:The minute I talked to people when I was struggling and before I went to the treatment center, me talking to other women that have gone through it like friends of friends, did something, even though I was still resistant and didn't want it. Something sunk in because they've gone through it and it worked for them and I want what they have. There's something about that person. I want what they have and so it's curiosity. It's about them reaching out. But you're, yeah, if you're, if there's someone in your life, anybody listening, that you think might benefit, just to talk. There's no identifying, there's no labeling, nothing. You can just absolutely share my contact, instagram, email or phone number and just say Michelle has been through this and she's a completely like, trusted source just to talk to. If you want her number, call her. I'll always answer the phone.
Michelle Stainton:I love that. Thank you so inspiring, michelle, as always. Wow, that was incredible. Thank you, thanks, michelle. So great to Thank you so inspiring, michelle, as always. Wow, that was incredible. Thank you, thanks, michelle. So great to see you Welcome my pleasure. Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate and subscribe to our podcast. When you do this, it helps to raise our podcast profile so more women can find us and get a little better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Mikelle Ethier:We also read all the reviews the good, the bad and the ugly to help us continuously improve our show. We would love to hear from you. You can connect with us through the podcast, on social media or through our website. Our information, as well as links and details from our conversation today, can be found in the show notes. This podcast is for general information only. It's designed to educate, inspire and support you on your personal journey through perimenopause. The information and opinions on this podcast are not intended to be a substitution for primary care diagnosis or treatment. The information on this podcast does not replace professional healthcare advice. The use of the information discussed is at the sole discretion of the listener. If you are suffering from symptoms or have questions, please consult a qualified healthcare practitioner.
